Management style docs writes on people under a manager, where they know
the details better than the manager himself, in past perfect tense. Yet,
"know" is in infinitive form instead.

Correct the verb form.

Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
---
 Documentation/process/management-style.rst | 4 ++--
 1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)

diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
--- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
+++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
@@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
 The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
 particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
 to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
-manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
+manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
 you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not
 competent to make that decision for them.
 
@@ -115,7 +115,7 @@ sure as hell shouldn't encourage them by promising them that what they
 work on will be included.  Make them at least think twice before they
 embark on a big endeavor.
 
-Remember: they'd better know more about the details than you do, and
+Remember: they'd better known more about the details than you do, and
 they usually already think they have the answer to everything.  The best
 thing you can do as a manager is not to instill confidence, but rather a
 healthy dose of critical thinking on what they do.

base-commit: ee9a6691935490dc39605882b41b9452844d5e4e
-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 07:34:38AM +0700, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Correct the verb form.

No, this is wrong.  I don't know the linguistic terms, but as a native
English speaker, I know this is wrong.

> -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
> +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to

On 8/25/25 5:34 PM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
> Management style docs writes on people under a manager, where they know
> the details better than the manager himself, in past perfect tense. Yet,
> "know" is in infinitive form instead.
> 
> Correct the verb form.
> 

Hi Bagas,

I don't know about the patch description/argument/justification,
but the wording makes no sense to me...

> Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Documentation/process/management-style.rst | 4 ++--
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> 
> diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
> --- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
>  The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
>  particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
>  to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
> -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
> +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
>  you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not
>  competent to make that decision for them.
>  
> @@ -115,7 +115,7 @@ sure as hell shouldn't encourage them by promising them that what they
>  work on will be included.  Make them at least think twice before they
>  embark on a big endeavor.
>  
> -Remember: they'd better know more about the details than you do, and
> +Remember: they'd better known more about the details than you do, and
>  they usually already think they have the answer to everything.  The best
>  thing you can do as a manager is not to instill confidence, but rather a
>  healthy dose of critical thinking on what they do.
> 
> base-commit: ee9a6691935490dc39605882b41b9452844d5e4e

-- 
~Randy

On 8/26/25 13:54, Randy Dunlap wrote:
> 
> 
> On 8/25/25 5:34 PM, Bagas Sanjaya wrote:
>> Management style docs writes on people under a manager, where they know
>> the details better than the manager himself, in past perfect tense. Yet,
>> "know" is in infinitive form instead.
>>
>> Correct the verb form.
>>
> 
> Hi Bagas,
> 
> I don't know about the patch description/argument/justification,
> but the wording makes no sense to me...
> 

Do you mean the original or the patched? Should I left the former as-is?

Confused...

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> writes:

> Management style docs writes on people under a manager, where they know
> the details better than the manager himself, in past perfect tense. Yet,
> "know" is in infinitive form instead.
>
> Correct the verb form.
>
> Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
> ---
>  Documentation/process/management-style.rst | 4 ++--
>  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
>
> diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
> --- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> +++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
>  The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
>  particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
>  to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
> -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
> +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
>  you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not

This seems actively wrong ... ?

jon

On Mon, Aug 25, 2025 at 10:47:28PM -0600, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> > Management style docs writes on people under a manager, where they know
> > the details better than the manager himself, in past perfect tense. Yet,
> > "know" is in infinitive form instead.
> >
> > Correct the verb form.
> >
> > Signed-off-by: Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com>
> > ---
> >  Documentation/process/management-style.rst | 4 ++--
> >  1 file changed, 2 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-)
> >
> > diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> > index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
> > --- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> > +++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> > @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
> >  The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
> >  particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
> >  to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
> > -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
> > +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
> >  you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not
> 
> This seems actively wrong ... ?

I do believe this is a clear indicator that the whole sentence needs to be
reworded:

    ... if somebody tells you to "choose (a) or (b), we really need you to
    decide on this," you're in trouble as a manager. The people you manage
    most likely know the details better than you, so if they come to you for
    a technical decision, ...

This change would detract from the... unique... style of this document, but
would hopefully be less confusing to non-native speakers.

-K

On Tue, Aug 26, 2025 at 10:46:50AM -0400, Konstantin Ryabitsev wrote:
> I do believe this is a clear indicator that the whole sentence needs to be
> reworded:
> 
>     ... if somebody tells you to "choose (a) or (b), we really need you to
>     decide on this," you're in trouble as a manager. The people you manage
>     most likely know the details better than you, so if they come to you for
>     a technical decision, ...
> 
> This change would detract from the... unique... style of this document, but
> would hopefully be less confusing to non-native speakers.

Thanks for the suggestion!

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Konstantin Ryabitsev <konstantin@linuxfoundation.org> writes:

> I do believe this is a clear indicator that the whole sentence needs to be
> reworded:
>
>     ... if somebody tells you to "choose (a) or (b), we really need you to
>     decide on this," you're in trouble as a manager. The people you manage
>     most likely know the details better than you, so if they come to you for
>     a technical decision, ...
>
> This change would detract from the... unique... style of this document, but
> would hopefully be less confusing to non-native speakers.

There has been talk in some circles about trying to update this
... unique ... style to more contemporary standards.  Maybe it's time to
see if that can be given a bit of encouragement.

Thanks,

jon

On 8/26/25 11:47, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
>> diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
>> index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
>> --- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
>> +++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
>> @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
>>   The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
>>   particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
>>   to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
>> -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
>> +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
>>   you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not
> 
> This seems actively wrong ... ?
> 

What I thought on the original wording was that the people (i.e. 
developers) know the (technical) details better than their manager.
And yeah, "better" was duplicated.

Thanks.

-- 
An old man doll... just what I always wanted! - Clara

Hi Bagas,

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 14:40:08 +0700 Bagas Sanjaya <bagasdotme@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 8/26/25 11:47, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> >> diff --git a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> >> index dfbc69bf49d435..1381b253b19ef4 100644
> >> --- a/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> >> +++ b/Documentation/process/management-style.rst
> >> @@ -42,7 +42,7 @@ actually true.
> >>   The name of the game is to **avoid** having to make a decision.  In
> >>   particular, if somebody tells you "choose (a) or (b), we really need you
> >>   to decide on this", you're in trouble as a manager.  The people you
> >> -manage had better know the details better than you, so if they come to
> >> +manage had better known the details than you, so if they come to
> >>   you for a technical decision, you're screwed.  You're clearly not  
> > 
> > This seems actively wrong ... ?
> >   
> 
> What I thought on the original wording was that the people (i.e. developers) know the (technical) details better than their manager.
> And yeah, "better" was duplicated.

One way to make this clearer would be:

 ... The people you
manage should know the details better than you ...

-- 
Cheers,
Stephen Rothwell