drivers/xen/gntdev.c | 24 +++++++++++++++--------- 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)
While building the kernel with LLVM, a warning was reported due to
excessive stack usage in `gntdev_ioctl`:
drivers/xen/gntdev.c:991: warning: stack frame size (1160) exceeds limit (1024) in function 'gntdev_ioctl'
Further analysis revealed that the large stack frame was caused by
`struct gntdev_copy_batch`, which was declared on the stack inside
`gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy()`. Since this function was inlined into
`gntdev_ioctl`, the stack usage was attributed to the latter.
This patch fixes the issue by dynamically allocating `gntdev_copy_batch`
using `kmalloc()`, which significantly reduces the stack footprint and
eliminates the warning.
This approach is consistent with similar fixes upstream, such as:
commit fa26198d30f3 ("iommu/io-pgtable-arm: dynamically allocate selftest device struct")
Fixes: a4cdb556cae0 ("xen/gntdev: add ioctl for grant copy")
Signed-off-by: Abinash Singh <abinashsinghlalotra@gmail.com>
---
The stack usage was confirmed using the `-fstack-usage` flag and mannual analysis, which showed:
drivers/xen/gntdev.c:953: gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy.isra 1048 bytes
drivers/xen/gntdev.c:826: gntdev_copy 56 bytes
Since `gntdev_ioctl` was calling the inlined `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy`, the total
frame size exceeded 1024 bytes, triggering the warning.
This patch addresses the warning and keeps stack usage within acceptable limits.
Is this patch fine or kmalloc may affect performance ?
---
drivers/xen/gntdev.c | 24 +++++++++++++++---------
1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-)
diff --git a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c
index 61faea1f0663..9811f3d7c87c 100644
--- a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c
+++ b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c
@@ -953,15 +953,19 @@ static int gntdev_grant_copy_seg(struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch,
static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u)
{
struct ioctl_gntdev_grant_copy copy;
- struct gntdev_copy_batch batch;
+ struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch;
unsigned int i;
int ret = 0;
if (copy_from_user(©, u, sizeof(copy)))
return -EFAULT;
-
- batch.nr_ops = 0;
- batch.nr_pages = 0;
+
+ batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL);
+ if (!batch)
+ return -ENOMEM;
+
+ batch->nr_ops = 0;
+ batch->nr_pages = 0;
for (i = 0; i < copy.count; i++) {
struct gntdev_grant_copy_segment seg;
@@ -971,18 +975,20 @@ static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u)
goto out;
}
- ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(&batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status);
+ ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status);
if (ret < 0)
goto out;
cond_resched();
}
- if (batch.nr_ops)
- ret = gntdev_copy(&batch);
- return ret;
+ if (batch->nr_ops)
+ ret = gntdev_copy(batch);
+ goto free_batch;
out:
- gntdev_put_pages(&batch);
+ gntdev_put_pages(batch);
+ free_batch:
+ kfree(batch);
return ret;
}
--
2.43.0
Hi, On 30/06/2025 06:54, Abinash Singh wrote: > While building the kernel with LLVM, a warning was reported due to > excessive stack usage in `gntdev_ioctl`: > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:991: warning: stack frame size (1160) exceeds limit (1024) in function 'gntdev_ioctl' > > Further analysis revealed that the large stack frame was caused by > `struct gntdev_copy_batch`, which was declared on the stack inside > `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy()`. Since this function was inlined into > `gntdev_ioctl`, the stack usage was attributed to the latter. > > This patch fixes the issue by dynamically allocating `gntdev_copy_batch` > using `kmalloc()`, which significantly reduces the stack footprint and > eliminates the warning. > > This approach is consistent with similar fixes upstream, such as: > > commit fa26198d30f3 ("iommu/io-pgtable-arm: dynamically allocate selftest device struct") > > Fixes: a4cdb556cae0 ("xen/gntdev: add ioctl for grant copy") > Signed-off-by: Abinash Singh <abinashsinghlalotra@gmail.com> > --- > The stack usage was confirmed using the `-fstack-usage` flag and mannual analysis, which showed: > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:953: gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy.isra 1048 bytes > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:826: gntdev_copy 56 bytes > > Since `gntdev_ioctl` was calling the inlined `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy`, the total > frame size exceeded 1024 bytes, triggering the warning. > > This patch addresses the warning and keeps stack usage within acceptable limits. > Is this patch fine or kmalloc may affect performance ? > --- Have you measured the performance impact? gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy is called quite often especially by the backend. I'm afraid calling the allocator here may cause even more slowdown than there already is, especially when memory is tight. > drivers/xen/gntdev.c | 24 +++++++++++++++--------- > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-) > > diff --git a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > index 61faea1f0663..9811f3d7c87c 100644 > --- a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > +++ b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > @@ -953,15 +953,19 @@ static int gntdev_grant_copy_seg(struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch, > static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) > { > struct ioctl_gntdev_grant_copy copy; > - struct gntdev_copy_batch batch; > + struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch; > unsigned int i; > int ret = 0; > > if (copy_from_user(©, u, sizeof(copy))) > return -EFAULT; > - > - batch.nr_ops = 0; > - batch.nr_pages = 0; > + > + batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL); > + if (!batch) > + return -ENOMEM; > + > + batch->nr_ops = 0; > + batch->nr_pages = 0; > > for (i = 0; i < copy.count; i++) { > struct gntdev_grant_copy_segment seg; > @@ -971,18 +975,20 @@ static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) > goto out; > } > > - ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(&batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); > + ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); > if (ret < 0) > goto out; > > cond_resched(); > } > - if (batch.nr_ops) > - ret = gntdev_copy(&batch); > - return ret; > + if (batch->nr_ops) > + ret = gntdev_copy(batch); > + goto free_batch; > > out: > - gntdev_put_pages(&batch); > + gntdev_put_pages(batch); > + free_batch: > + kfree(batch); > return ret; > } > Ngoc Tu Dinh | Vates XCP-ng Developer XCP-ng & Xen Orchestra - Vates solutions web: https://vates.tech
Hi , Thanks for pointing that out. I haven’t measured the performance impact yet — my main focus was on getting rid of the stack usage warning triggered by LLVM due to inlining. But you're right, gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is on a hot path, and calling kmalloc() there could definitely slow things down, especially under memory pressure. I’ll run some benchmarks to compare the current approach with the dynamic allocation, and also look into alternatives — maybe pre-allocating the struct or limiting inlining instead. If you have any ideas or suggestions on how best to approach this, I’d be happy to hear them. Do you have any suggestions on how to test the performance? Best, Abinash On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 at 16:05, Tu Dinh <ngoc-tu.dinh@vates.tech> wrote: > > Hi, > > On 30/06/2025 06:54, Abinash Singh wrote: > > While building the kernel with LLVM, a warning was reported due to > > excessive stack usage in `gntdev_ioctl`: > > > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:991: warning: stack frame size (1160) exceeds limit (1024) in function 'gntdev_ioctl' > > > > Further analysis revealed that the large stack frame was caused by > > `struct gntdev_copy_batch`, which was declared on the stack inside > > `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy()`. Since this function was inlined into > > `gntdev_ioctl`, the stack usage was attributed to the latter. > > > > This patch fixes the issue by dynamically allocating `gntdev_copy_batch` > > using `kmalloc()`, which significantly reduces the stack footprint and > > eliminates the warning. > > > > This approach is consistent with similar fixes upstream, such as: > > > > commit fa26198d30f3 ("iommu/io-pgtable-arm: dynamically allocate selftest device struct") > > > > Fixes: a4cdb556cae0 ("xen/gntdev: add ioctl for grant copy") > > Signed-off-by: Abinash Singh <abinashsinghlalotra@gmail.com> > > --- > > The stack usage was confirmed using the `-fstack-usage` flag and mannual analysis, which showed: > > > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:953: gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy.isra 1048 bytes > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c:826: gntdev_copy 56 bytes > > > > Since `gntdev_ioctl` was calling the inlined `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy`, the total > > frame size exceeded 1024 bytes, triggering the warning. > > > > This patch addresses the warning and keeps stack usage within acceptable limits. > > Is this patch fine or kmalloc may affect performance ? > > --- > > Have you measured the performance impact? gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy is > called quite often especially by the backend. I'm afraid calling the > allocator here may cause even more slowdown than there already is, > especially when memory is tight. > > > drivers/xen/gntdev.c | 24 +++++++++++++++--------- > > 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-) > > > > diff --git a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > > index 61faea1f0663..9811f3d7c87c 100644 > > --- a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > > +++ b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c > > @@ -953,15 +953,19 @@ static int gntdev_grant_copy_seg(struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch, > > static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) > > { > > struct ioctl_gntdev_grant_copy copy; > > - struct gntdev_copy_batch batch; > > + struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch; > > unsigned int i; > > int ret = 0; > > > > if (copy_from_user(©, u, sizeof(copy))) > > return -EFAULT; > > - > > - batch.nr_ops = 0; > > - batch.nr_pages = 0; > > + > > + batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL); > > + if (!batch) > > + return -ENOMEM; > > + > > + batch->nr_ops = 0; > > + batch->nr_pages = 0; > > > > for (i = 0; i < copy.count; i++) { > > struct gntdev_grant_copy_segment seg; > > @@ -971,18 +975,20 @@ static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) > > goto out; > > } > > > > - ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(&batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); > > + ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); > > if (ret < 0) > > goto out; > > > > cond_resched(); > > } > > - if (batch.nr_ops) > > - ret = gntdev_copy(&batch); > > - return ret; > > + if (batch->nr_ops) > > + ret = gntdev_copy(batch); > > + goto free_batch; > > > > out: > > - gntdev_put_pages(&batch); > > + gntdev_put_pages(batch); > > + free_batch: > > + kfree(batch); > > return ret; > > } > > > > > > Ngoc Tu Dinh | Vates XCP-ng Developer > > XCP-ng & Xen Orchestra - Vates solutions > > web: https://vates.tech >
On 01/07/2025 23:53, Abinash wrote: > Hi , > > Thanks for pointing that out. > > I haven’t measured the performance impact yet — my main focus was on > getting rid of the stack usage warning triggered by LLVM due to > inlining. But you're right, gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is on a hot > path, and calling kmalloc() there could definitely slow things down, > especially under memory pressure. > > I’ll run some benchmarks to compare the current approach with the > dynamic allocation, and also look into alternatives — maybe > pre-allocating the struct or limiting inlining instead. If you have > any ideas or suggestions on how best to approach this, I’d be happy to > hear them. > > Do you have any suggestions on how to test the performance? > > Best, > Abinash > > Preallocating may work but I'd be wary of synchronization if the preallocated struct is shared. I'd look at optimizing status[] which should save quite a few bytes. Reducing GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH could be a last resort, but that may also impact performance. As for benchmarks, I think you can use iperf and fio with varying packet sizes/block sizes. > On Mon, 30 Jun 2025 at 16:05, Tu Dinh <ngoc-tu.dinh@vates.tech> wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> On 30/06/2025 06:54, Abinash Singh wrote: >>> While building the kernel with LLVM, a warning was reported due to >>> excessive stack usage in `gntdev_ioctl`: >>> >>> drivers/xen/gntdev.c:991: warning: stack frame size (1160) exceeds limit (1024) in function 'gntdev_ioctl' >>> >>> Further analysis revealed that the large stack frame was caused by >>> `struct gntdev_copy_batch`, which was declared on the stack inside >>> `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy()`. Since this function was inlined into >>> `gntdev_ioctl`, the stack usage was attributed to the latter. >>> >>> This patch fixes the issue by dynamically allocating `gntdev_copy_batch` >>> using `kmalloc()`, which significantly reduces the stack footprint and >>> eliminates the warning. >>> >>> This approach is consistent with similar fixes upstream, such as: >>> >>> commit fa26198d30f3 ("iommu/io-pgtable-arm: dynamically allocate selftest device struct") >>> >>> Fixes: a4cdb556cae0 ("xen/gntdev: add ioctl for grant copy") >>> Signed-off-by: Abinash Singh <abinashsinghlalotra@gmail.com> >>> --- >>> The stack usage was confirmed using the `-fstack-usage` flag and mannual analysis, which showed: >>> >>> drivers/xen/gntdev.c:953: gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy.isra 1048 bytes >>> drivers/xen/gntdev.c:826: gntdev_copy 56 bytes >>> >>> Since `gntdev_ioctl` was calling the inlined `gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy`, the total >>> frame size exceeded 1024 bytes, triggering the warning. >>> >>> This patch addresses the warning and keeps stack usage within acceptable limits. >>> Is this patch fine or kmalloc may affect performance ? >>> --- >> >> Have you measured the performance impact? gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy is >> called quite often especially by the backend. I'm afraid calling the >> allocator here may cause even more slowdown than there already is, >> especially when memory is tight. >> >>> drivers/xen/gntdev.c | 24 +++++++++++++++--------- >>> 1 file changed, 15 insertions(+), 9 deletions(-) >>> >>> diff --git a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c >>> index 61faea1f0663..9811f3d7c87c 100644 >>> --- a/drivers/xen/gntdev.c >>> +++ b/drivers/xen/gntdev.c >>> @@ -953,15 +953,19 @@ static int gntdev_grant_copy_seg(struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch, >>> static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) >>> { >>> struct ioctl_gntdev_grant_copy copy; >>> - struct gntdev_copy_batch batch; >>> + struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch; >>> unsigned int i; >>> int ret = 0; >>> >>> if (copy_from_user(©, u, sizeof(copy))) >>> return -EFAULT; >>> - >>> - batch.nr_ops = 0; >>> - batch.nr_pages = 0; >>> + >>> + batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL); >>> + if (!batch) >>> + return -ENOMEM; >>> + >>> + batch->nr_ops = 0; >>> + batch->nr_pages = 0; >>> >>> for (i = 0; i < copy.count; i++) { >>> struct gntdev_grant_copy_segment seg; >>> @@ -971,18 +975,20 @@ static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(struct gntdev_priv *priv, void __user *u) >>> goto out; >>> } >>> >>> - ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(&batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); >>> + ret = gntdev_grant_copy_seg(batch, &seg, ©.segments[i].status); >>> if (ret < 0) >>> goto out; >>> >>> cond_resched(); >>> } >>> - if (batch.nr_ops) >>> - ret = gntdev_copy(&batch); >>> - return ret; >>> + if (batch->nr_ops) >>> + ret = gntdev_copy(batch); >>> + goto free_batch; >>> >>> out: >>> - gntdev_put_pages(&batch); >>> + gntdev_put_pages(batch); >>> + free_batch: >>> + kfree(batch); >>> return ret; >>> } >>> >> >> >> >> Ngoc Tu Dinh | Vates XCP-ng Developer >> >> XCP-ng & Xen Orchestra - Vates solutions >> >> web: https://vates.tech >> Ngoc Tu Dinh | Vates XCP-ng Developer XCP-ng & Xen Orchestra - Vates solutions web: https://vates.tech
On 03.07.25 00:42, Tu Dinh wrote: > On 01/07/2025 23:53, Abinash wrote: >> Hi , >> >> Thanks for pointing that out. >> >> I haven’t measured the performance impact yet — my main focus was on >> getting rid of the stack usage warning triggered by LLVM due to >> inlining. But you're right, gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is on a hot >> path, and calling kmalloc() there could definitely slow things down, >> especially under memory pressure. >> >> I’ll run some benchmarks to compare the current approach with the >> dynamic allocation, and also look into alternatives — maybe >> pre-allocating the struct or limiting inlining instead. If you have >> any ideas or suggestions on how best to approach this, I’d be happy to >> hear them. >> >> Do you have any suggestions on how to test the performance? >> >> Best, >> Abinash >> >> > > Preallocating may work but I'd be wary of synchronization if the > preallocated struct is shared. > > I'd look at optimizing status[] which should save quite a few bytes. > > Reducing GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH could be a last resort, but that may also > impact performance. IMHO the most promising way would be to dynamically allocate the struct, but don't free it at the end of the ioctl. Instead it could be put into a list anchored in struct gntdev_priv, so freeing would be done only at close() time. Synchronization would be minimal (just for taking a free struct from the list or putting it back again), while memory usage would be basically just as needed, depending on the number of concurrent threads using the same file descriptor for the ioctl. This approach would even allow to raise GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH, maybe resulting even in a gain of performance. I'll write a patch implementing the allocation scheme. Juergen
Le 03/07/2025 à 07:22, Jürgen Groß a écrit : > On 03.07.25 00:42, Tu Dinh wrote: >> On 01/07/2025 23:53, Abinash wrote: >>> Hi , >>> >>> Thanks for pointing that out. >>> >>> I haven’t measured the performance impact yet — my main focus was on >>> getting rid of the stack usage warning triggered by LLVM due to >>> inlining. But you're right, gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is on a hot >>> path, and calling kmalloc() there could definitely slow things down, >>> especially under memory pressure. >>> >>> I’ll run some benchmarks to compare the current approach with the >>> dynamic allocation, and also look into alternatives — maybe >>> pre-allocating the struct or limiting inlining instead. If you have >>> any ideas or suggestions on how best to approach this, I’d be happy to >>> hear them. >>> >>> Do you have any suggestions on how to test the performance? >>> >>> Best, >>> Abinash >>> >>> >> >> Preallocating may work but I'd be wary of synchronization if the >> preallocated struct is shared. >> >> I'd look at optimizing status[] which should save quite a few bytes. >> >> Reducing GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH could be a last resort, but that may also >> impact performance. > > IMHO the most promising way would be to dynamically allocate the struct, > but > don't free it at the end of the ioctl. Instead it could be put into a list > anchored in struct gntdev_priv, so freeing would be done only at close() > time. > > Synchronization would be minimal (just for taking a free struct from the > list > or putting it back again), while memory usage would be basically just as > needed, > depending on the number of concurrent threads using the same file > descriptor > for the ioctl. > > This approach would even allow to raise GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH, maybe > resulting even > in a gain of performance. > > I'll write a patch implementing the allocation scheme. > > > Juergen It may be an overkill, but sometimes we see pattern that try to keep the best of the 2 worlds. Something like: static struct gntdev_copy_batch static_batch; static struct mutex my_mutex; static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(...) { struct gntdev_copy_batch *dynamic_batch = NULL; struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch; ... if (mutex_trylock(&my_mutex)) { /* * No concurrent access? * Use a shared static variable to avoid an allocation */ batch = &static_batch; else { /* otherwise, we need some fresh memory */ dynamic_batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL); if (!batch) return -ENOMEM; batch = dynamic_batch; } /* do stuff with 'batch' */ ... free_batch: if (!dynamic_batch) mutex_unlock(&my_mutex); else kfree(dynamic_batch); return ret; } Just my 2c. CJ
On 03.07.25 19:35, Christophe JAILLET wrote: > Le 03/07/2025 à 07:22, Jürgen Groß a écrit : >> On 03.07.25 00:42, Tu Dinh wrote: >>> On 01/07/2025 23:53, Abinash wrote: >>>> Hi , >>>> >>>> Thanks for pointing that out. >>>> >>>> I haven’t measured the performance impact yet — my main focus was on >>>> getting rid of the stack usage warning triggered by LLVM due to >>>> inlining. But you're right, gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is on a hot >>>> path, and calling kmalloc() there could definitely slow things down, >>>> especially under memory pressure. >>>> >>>> I’ll run some benchmarks to compare the current approach with the >>>> dynamic allocation, and also look into alternatives — maybe >>>> pre-allocating the struct or limiting inlining instead. If you have >>>> any ideas or suggestions on how best to approach this, I’d be happy to >>>> hear them. >>>> >>>> Do you have any suggestions on how to test the performance? >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Abinash >>>> >>>> >>> >>> Preallocating may work but I'd be wary of synchronization if the >>> preallocated struct is shared. >>> >>> I'd look at optimizing status[] which should save quite a few bytes. >>> >>> Reducing GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH could be a last resort, but that may also >>> impact performance. >> >> IMHO the most promising way would be to dynamically allocate the struct, but >> don't free it at the end of the ioctl. Instead it could be put into a list >> anchored in struct gntdev_priv, so freeing would be done only at close() time. >> >> Synchronization would be minimal (just for taking a free struct from the list >> or putting it back again), while memory usage would be basically just as needed, >> depending on the number of concurrent threads using the same file descriptor >> for the ioctl. >> >> This approach would even allow to raise GNTDEV_COPY_BATCH, maybe resulting even >> in a gain of performance. >> >> I'll write a patch implementing the allocation scheme. >> >> >> Juergen > > It may be an overkill, but sometimes we see pattern that try to keep the best of > the 2 worlds. Something like: > > > static struct gntdev_copy_batch static_batch; > static struct mutex my_mutex; > > static long gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy(...) > { > struct gntdev_copy_batch *dynamic_batch = NULL; > struct gntdev_copy_batch *batch; > > ... > > if (mutex_trylock(&my_mutex)) { > /* > * No concurrent access? > * Use a shared static variable to avoid an allocation > */ > batch = &static_batch; > else { > /* otherwise, we need some fresh memory */ > dynamic_batch = kmalloc(sizeof(*batch), GFP_KERNEL); > if (!batch) > return -ENOMEM; > > batch = dynamic_batch; > } > > /* do stuff with 'batch' */ > ... > > free_batch: > if (!dynamic_batch) > mutex_unlock(&my_mutex); > else > kfree(dynamic_batch); > return ret; > } > > > Just my 2c. Thanks for the remark, but this won't help much. gntdev_ioctl_grant_copy() is e.g. used by qemu for doing disk I/O on behalf of a Xen guest. This means that it is very likely to be used concurrently, so just optimizing for a single thread won't be enough. Juergen
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